Curse

draxynnic · May 26, 2009, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Personally, I don't see a problem with scythewars and scythesins and scythehoppers being effective.

Consider the idea behind the Dervish - it's essentially the PBAOE/earthtank elementalist formalised into a profession. You use enchantments to defend yourself where the Warrior uses natural heavy armour, you use PBAOE attacks disguised as enchantments to deal damage and apply conditions, and your weapon happens to strike multiple targets. Mysticism does its job - it gives you energy right when you need it (when you need to renew an enchantment) and also rewards you for using lots of enchantments with health.

But if you're not using those enchantments, what are you really? A warrior or an assassin or maybe a ranger who happens to use a scythe. Nothing wrong with that.

The real problem, if there is one, is more as zwei2stan says - a lot of the skills that are supposed to have been the basis of the Dervish's playstyle just aren't really up to scratch. Primary attributes get a lot of attention, but Earth and especially Wind Prayers are much more needing of help.

Probably doesn't help that they only have one campaign's worth of skills, too...

Sword Hammer Axe · May 26, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Improve Mysticism, find another way to do it.

I smell a new perma with this mysticism you propose lol.

reaper with no name · May 26, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You're not-so respectfully wrong.

There's a reason bars like the D/N orders support character exist. There's a reason that the D/E Wounding Strike could spam all day.

A dervish has massive damage from a scythe, and a primary attribute with innate energy management. Every aegis that ends on them, every patient spirit, every rof, every bloody enchantment gives them energy.

There's a reason that a Dervish can become a support character while all an assassin can be is a one-stop gimmick.

Stop this terrible mindset. The pve community is full of morons and it's showing. Stop buffing shit - you all complain that the game is too easy and that there's nothing to do...well if Anet didn't keep buffing shit because you children didn't know what you want then things wouldn't be like this.

Warriors can no-longer use Dervish skills well, at least not in PvP. They are the best at using their forms, and it being enchantment powered-support engines.

Warriors have a pretty shit attribute, but it's balanced because they are such a powerful class. Dervishes have great damage, great skills, and a decent primary attribute.

You're wrong. So go back to playing with a class that should have never been introduced.

You might be right about PvP, but warriors certainly still can in PvE, and unfortunately, that's where most of the player base is. 3/5 of the avatars are crap, and the other 2 are only good in certain circumstances. Add that to the WS/RS build (which on it's own still isn't viable because a sin can do it better; you need to throw in SY! to make that one work), and the suboptimal but workable gimmick builds, and you have everything that the dervish can do. Big whoop.

It doesn't matter if dervishes have great skills, because most of them can be used by other classes better than they can be by the dervish. The warrior primary attribute is at least linked to great skills like power attack. And no, the dervish does not have great damage. Play a sin or warrior and you'll learn what great damage is.

The point is, dervishes suck. Compare them to scythe sins and scythe warriors and you'll see. The only way dervishes can compete is with gimmick builds. That is NOT balance.

When another class can use your skills better than you can, then you need a buff (or they need a nerf). Sorry, but that's the definition of underpowered. And the easiest way to do that is to change the primary attribute. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

JASON626 · May 26, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportacus

Patient Spirit FTL?

then Dwanas Kiss ftw

Snow Bunny · May 26, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

snip

Your proposed rebalancing would only perpetuate their existence as a gimmick character.

GUESS THAT WENT RIGHT OVER HEAD, YEAH BOY?

Shasgaliel · May 26, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Make wind prayers useful first. Mysticism is fine as it is. I am not sure if I understood you correctly but you want to make a support class something like a warrior? What for?

Verene · May 26, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

What?

Mysticism is fine as is. Yeah, I never bother with enchantment stripping, it's just a waste and rarely do I ever need the boost. But considering that the bonus from Mysticism triggers off of every enchant on you, instead of just ones you cast...Monks tend to be heavy on enchantment's and it's not unusual for me to have 7-8 active at once, only half of which are actually mine.

Also, I'm confused on the "Dervishes suck and do crap damage" opinion, and especially those who say that Assassins are better. I have a Dervish and an Assassin. Only one of them can solo areas without a finicky, specialized build, and it's certainly not the Assassin.

(Datura) · May 28, 2009, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Your proposed rebalancing would only perpetuate their existence as a gimmick character.

GUESS THAT WENT RIGHT OVER HEAD, YEAH BOY?

/facepalm . . just stop talking.

anyway, this class is attractive to play but lacks oomph. I would agree that earth/wind prayers need help instead of mysticism. then perhaps the derv would feel more well rounded.

and there are a few skills that work better on warriors/sins that should be best on a derv. so, that is a problem.

draxynnic · May 29, 2009, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Every profession has a few skills that are better used by some other profession. This is part of what the secondary profession system is all about.